the robo ban

[just ducky]

Originally Posted by Sampsons_owner

It sort of brings the saying to mind "be careful what you wish for because you just might get it". Especially when you are dealing with the govenment. If they mess up the wording this could be a nightmare for anyone using anything with motion.

I wonder what the penalty is going to be for some old joe who didnt read the memo or this forum and has always used Spinners? Just wondering, Steve.

Steve,

Right after the order was signed, we spoke with DNRE about educating people prior to showing up at the drawing to avoid exactly what you talked about...someone unknowingly getting fined, and they listened, but again, it's up to them because it's their law. Barb was talking about putting some kind of big notice in the waterfowl guide, and on their website. I know Vic is going to say something in the pre-draw speech that they do at SRSGA, but people have to be listening. We also talked about putting up posters or signs at the station, and/or at the parking lots, but it needs DNRE blessing to do that. If I recall when steel shot first became mandatory, they put signs up on the areas. So that would seem easy enough. I think the SFCHA even discussed helping with the cost for signs. We in the SFCHA plan to try to inform people at our youth day in September with flyers and things, and at the annual banquet also in September. But a lot of it will rely on DNRE for education, AND enforcement.

[just ducky]

Originally Posted by BigR

...Not trying to stir the pot here guys, but I know the effort you have put into getting this initiated and just bringing to light the fact that as of now, the wording doesn't meet what you guys were hoping to accomplish or stop there.

The SFCHA board agrees and has voiced this concern.

[Branta]

Originally Posted by Sampsons_owner

It sort of brings the saying to mind "be careful what you wish for because you just might get it". Especially when you are dealing with the govenment. If they mess up the wording this could be a nightmare for anyone using anything with motion.

I wonder what the penalty is going to be for some old joe who didnt read the memo or this forum and has always used Spinners? Just wondering, Steve.

when this was first kicked around here, that was exactly my concern; clearly define the target ban or you open the door too wide.

case in point I always bring up (because I know it first hand) is Oregon. focus was similar there; to address the usage of motorized spinning wing decoys.

end result? ALL battery/motorized devices were banned including floating magnets, swimmers, shakers, and the killer for my buddy was the aerator.


so I agree that the wording needs to be carefully chosen.
~~~~~
as to what happens when/if Joe doesn't know prior to the draw-

when the hunter shows up at shia, they go through the lay of the land discussions, rules, etc. this will be the same. they'll get notice of the ban there I'd imagine, just like they tell them they can only bring in 25 shells, must hunt in their zone,...

if they don't realize it before hand, it seems pretty simple to leave it in the truck.

[just ducky]

Originally Posted by Branta

...as to what happens when/if Joe doesn't know prior to the draw-

when the hunter shows up at shia, they go through the lay of the land discussions, rules, etc. this will be the same. they'll get notice of the ban there I'd imagine, just like they tell them they can only bring in 25 shells, must hunt in their zone,...

Yep, will be announced just like all other regs are. And you're exactly right...if they aren't listening at the drawing, OR they read the fine print on the back of the area map (who does that?), they likely won't know about the 25 shell limit either. Good example.

Originally Posted by Branta

...if they don't realize it before hand, it seems pretty simple to leave it in the truck.

And if everyone in the parking lot lets them know (putting it mildly) as they're all loading their boats to head in that they can't use SWD's, and they STILL bring one or more with them, well then they're on their own. I'm sure there will be a few RAP calls made.

[Sampsons_owner]

Not to pick on poor Joe, We can call him Steve from now on if you want too , But I personally have shown up at 2 pm and seen whats leftover and picked a spot. No talk or nothing was given. See my point.

So my question stands, Whats the consequences or fine gonna be? Steve

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Sampsons_owner

Not to pick on poor Joe, We can call him Steve from now on if you want too , But I personally have shown up at 2 pm and seen whats leftover and picked a spot. No talk or nothing was given. See my point.

So my question stands, Whats the consequences or fine gonna be? Steve

$$$$

[just ducky]

Originally Posted by Sampsons_owner

Not to pick on poor Joe, We can call him Steve from now on if you want too , But I personally have shown up at 2 pm and seen whats leftover and picked a spot. No talk or nothing was given. See my point.

So my question stands, Whats the consequences or fine gonna be? Steve

I have come late too Steve. Obviously they'll need some signs or something for at least this year. But Branta's point is a good one...if I'm new to managed area hunting, and I walk in at 2pm to take a leftover, how would I know there's a 25 shotshell limit? I'd either read the back of the map for the area rules, read the waterfowl regs (but who does that? ), ask someone there (but how do I know what to ask?) Down at Harsens, they still have the 17 shotshell limit. And last I knew, they don't have any special signage or anything. Imagine finding that one out the hard way. You see the point? There are lots of regs that go along with managed areas that frankly aren't real obvious. A hunter who is not paying close attention could get stung really easily.

[here2]

hey i dont hunt there or anything but just browsing the dnr site and found this http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...0_328722_7.pdf

under important information for 2010 it says

"the use of spinning-wing decoys is prohibited at shiawassee river state game area"

thats as clear as day to me no wing moving parts but keep up the "debate"

as you were

tony

[MCMANN]

tony

very big difference in spinning wings and moving wings


mike

[Shiawassee_Kid]

Originally Posted by MCMANN

tony

very big difference in spinning wings and moving wings


mike

yes there is...but if a CO walks 300 yards to give you a ticket for spinning wings and realizes hes been fooled by kites.....he may write you the ticket anyways, lol. Sure you can goto court and fight it, don't cost him anything and makes huge inconvenience for you. been there done it.

[MCMANN]

so if the ban is for spinning wings and the CO walks 300yrds to find nothing but flappers he will write a ticket

if thats the case the CO wont have a job for very long if he is writing bad tickets


also you didnt comment back on whats the difference in a sillosock flapper or a t-flag both do the same exact thing but he stated if you had your way 1 would be legal and the other 1 wouldnt be

IMO the law will state spinning wings because if they try and take it to motion wings or even motion decoys a lawyer fresh out of school would have a field day with sueing the state of MI over the first ticket wrote for "motion" decoys

cant wait to see how the law is wrote

mike

[duckhunter88]

IMO there is an easy way to fix this problem. Ban all decoys that do not operate on human or wind power. There is so many things that take batteries to cause motion, you may as well go back to the old days and buy a farm raised duck and stake it down in your decoys. Sorry didn't mean to jump in, just couldn't help it anymore.

[DEDGOOSE]

Dang if it reads "spinning wing decoys" any decent lawyer will eat this for lunch with the numerous alternatives..

[Shiawassee_Kid]

Originally Posted by MCMANN

also you didnt comment back on whats the difference in a sillosock flapper or a t-flag both do the same exact thing but he stated if you had your way 1 would be legal and the other 1 wouldnt be

t-flags were not intended to be banned. plus, if you want to stand on a ladder and twist a t-shirt around a circle, go for it....you gotta be an idiot if you think thats the intended rule is to ban someone waving a flag. why you gotta split hairs? you know what the intended ban is for but you want to find a way around it? go ahead, its your deal.

I can only tell you what we wanted banned, DNR has took over from there. I know they are watching it carefully, if someone works around it they will adjust it next time, thats all i can tell ya.

and you think a lawyer is gonna have a hayday over a misdemeanor ticket? or sue the state because of the wording of the ban? lol c'mon. I'm still waiting for winchester to sue over shell limits or remington to sue over lead shot....get over it.

[MCMANN]

kid

you stated kites, flappers and so on

a kite you fly on a string
a flapper is on a pole stuck in the ground
a t-flag is on a pole in your hand ALL do the exact samething is my point your the ont that stated kites and flapper is what you guys wanted banned also

hell yes if i get a ticket because a CO walks out wow 300yds to give me a ticket for a spinner and i have a flapper out like you stated hell yes MY LAWYER will have a field day with it I'll be glad to spend some money on that one.

ALSO ISNT THIS BAN IN PLACE TO GIVE YOU GUYS A QUALITY HUNT
so by me standing on a ladder waving a shirt like you stated will ruin your hunt faster the any robo duck ever did